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Post by swankivy on Feb 5, 2010 23:29:11 GMT -5
How nice is too nice?
It's hard to tell this early in the game whether these men mean Ivy any harm, but it's clear they're trying to tempt her to stay. What do you think the signs are--if any--that a stranger's upfront kindness indicates that one should be wary? Is unprecedented generosity from a stranger always suspicious, or do you think it's better to trust kind people unless they cross a certain line? Where is that line, anyway?
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Post by SHO! on Feb 6, 2010 1:02:24 GMT -5
The thing about really big smiles ;D they have a lot of teeth. I grew up in a family where I'd get dragged to family events by my grandparents with my father in tow. My father is not a very liked man, and I was one of his kids. Consequently I saw more than my share of false, toothy smiles and maybe that's why I'm so jaded or even cynical when it comes to people that are too nice too soon.
We live in a world where people use up their precious time to harm others (strangers), not out of vengeance, political views, or from coincidence but for personal gain or for no reason at all. Their are people out there right now that are devising ways to make other people miserable simply because making others needlessly suffer is a source of entertainment for them.
Many times nefarious efforts like that start off as simply malicious attacks. The simple attacks then devolve into a game where enticing the victim with kindness, leading them along a bit, ad then dangling them out right before slashing into the intended sacrifice's peace of mind. I've seen it too many times to ignore it. I've experienced it more times than anyone would have liked. What I've noticed is that individuals like that (unless they are a sociopath) don't really understand what basic human decency, normal natural kindness, is really like and wind up pouring it on way too thick. They don't understand what being nice is really about and go straight to "movie villain" nice.
Most people that are excessively accommodating and overly nice trigger my "Spidey Sense" to tingle. So in my opinion, like with the wiggling tongue of a snapping turtle, the sweet smell of a pitcher plant's nectar, or the pretty, bright colors of too many poisonous things to name individually, sometimes the most inviting things will only get you eaten if you fall under their spell. It's better to err on the side of caution.
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Post by blondiviolette on Feb 6, 2010 3:12:57 GMT -5
Woah, Ivy really needs some lessons in stranger danger!
It's especially easy for children to be taken advantage of since some of them think adults are like a god who will punish them if they don't do what they say. And often even with the stranger danger talks they will still let a stranger in because they are curious or feel they should.
I think that these men seem harmless (so far) and Keith was just fascinated in her cause she's magical and wanted to spend some time with her/show his friend like he said, but to pick her up and put her in a room with him is totally wrong! He did cross the line there for sure, it was definitely like kidnap in a way, he didn't stop to think her parents might be around searching for her or anything. Well if Keith's capable of doing that then he may get the idea to steal her away forever and make money out of her, a circus act featuring a magical kid or something!
Some of the signs that one should be wary with a stranger is if they are too touchy-feely, compliment too much (without really knowing you at all/grandiose praise for something very small), shower the person with gifts (especially true with young kids with pedophiles) and of course make flirtatious comments. I've had a bit of experience with this, having been a very naive and trusting person years ago when men came up and seemed very nice, usually they only wanted a sexual encounter in the end or to flirt etc. Often the guys will start off with very clean conversation and slowly work their way to the flirtatious/sexual talk once they've got you in. A counselor once said that stranger guys who are overly friendly usually are after one thing, that had been her experience and for the most part this has been true. They usually want SOMETHING no matter what it is. In the case of psychopaths the above is true too that they'll be very nice up to a point when you're "theirs" - then pounce. On the other side of the argument, friends you know for ages can turn out to be psychopaths, so not always strangers, those who seem very trustworthy, I'm thinking of a documentary on 'A&E Biographies' where a man in college befriended all these women and ended up luring them away to kill them, he'd grown a strong friendship with them all so they didn't feel like he was a stranger anymore. We're all strangers at first to each other but the context of how the pursuit of friendship comes about makes a big difference sometimes - a random street encounter is usually more dangerous than a group/friend of a friend meeting or whatever, but again, not always. Everyone can be anyone: stranger/friend/your next door neighbour, if they're good at hiding themselves you probably won't know, but usually they give something away to give themselves away.
Not always is a stranger chatting a bad thing if it's just a general short comment or if in a group situation and sometimes these strangers can become great friends in the end and there was nothing to worry about, sadly to let someone in who you don't know is a big risk and as said before, if they're good at manipulation you don't know till it's too late. It's good to always be accepting and not too closed about everyone, but to always have one eye open so to speak. People often have a certain feeling they get from a person or the situation and they don't necessarily listen to what their heart's telling them about what they should or shouldn't do in the case of strangers, maybe because they're lonely and want someone to connect with; their desperation is so great that they ignore the warning signs.
Ivy could very well be exploited eventually as some money making ploy and if her parents knew what she got up to in this episode they'd be shocked! She seems very young to be wandering around the city by herself... maybe it will take something bad happening to her for her to learn the hard lesson that not everyone can be trusted.
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Post by customdesigned on Feb 6, 2010 9:49:00 GMT -5
I am suspicious of Ernie because:
1) He did not believe the testimony of his friend Keith. (Ideally, you should accept the testimony of those you have found trustworthy - although in cases like this you might privately harbour your own interpretation of what they saw.) By itself, this could just mean a "doubting Thomas", but
2) The reasons he gives for doubting are not rational (like, "there is no such thing as magic", or if Keith was more specific about what he saw, "babies don't fly"). Instead, he suspects Keith of pulling one over on him - and not for a joke that Ernie expects to enjoy or benefit from. Often people project their own less than righteous proclivities on others. The thief will readily suspect others of theft, and is often especially outraged when his own stuff gets stolen.
A third danger signal is that Keith seems too bothered by Ernie's disbelief. This could mean that Keith can be pressured by Ernie into going along with a plan that would otherwise bother his conscience.
That is a lot of innuendo for just a few lines of dialog!
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Post by skygawker on Feb 7, 2010 13:49:47 GMT -5
This brings me back to the question of how dangerous a kid like Ivy is. How much power do Keith and Ernie have over her, and how much power does Ivy have over them? They could trap her, but she is also very strong. Would they hurt her, or could she protect herself?
I also thought CustomDesigned made a very good point about human nature: the people who trust others the least are probably those who deserve the least trust. People don't easily believe others think in ways very different to them.
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Post by swankivy on Feb 11, 2010 20:44:28 GMT -5
A third danger signal is that Keith seems too bothered by Ernie's disbelief. This could mean that Keith can be pressured by Ernie into going along with a plan that would otherwise bother his conscience. Interesting point. He doesn't seem like the kind of person who would drag a kid in off the street by tempting her with cookies, but then he was so desperate to prove to Ernie that he didn't make up the "magic baby" story that he was willing to do something he wouldn't have done in any other situation. We'll see more of this later in the comic, of course, where their attitudes and intentions will become clearer, but how both of these guys initially react to Ivy does tell a pretty interesting story. . . . |
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Post by swankivy on Feb 11, 2010 20:47:59 GMT -5
This brings me back to the question of how dangerous a kid like Ivy is. How much power do Keith and Ernie have over her, and how much power does Ivy have over them? They could trap her, but she is also very strong. Would they hurt her, or could she protect herself? Good question. She would obviously have to believe they were trying to hurt her in order to fight back, but she's so young she doesn't have the judgment to tell when someone means her harm, and can't see the signs of it unless they involve frightening her or hurting her. However, Keith has already experienced her ability to overpower an adult, so he conceivably has some semblance of understanding about what he's dealing with. (The first time he met her, she pushed him onto the ground because she didn't want to be touched.) It's easy to assume a baby would be easy to control, but since she's no ordinary kid, one never knows. . . . |
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Post by SHO! on Feb 13, 2010 0:37:07 GMT -5
This brings me back to the question of how dangerous a kid like Ivy is. How much power do Keith and Ernie have over her, and how much power does Ivy have over them? They could trap her, but she is also very strong. Would they hurt her, or could she protect herself? Good question. She would obviously have to believe they were trying to hurt her in order to fight back, but she's so young she doesn't have the judgment to tell when someone means her harm, and can't see the signs of it unless they involve frightening her or hurting her. However, Keith has already experienced her ability to overpower an adult, so he conceivably has some semblance of understanding about what he's dealing with. (The first time he met her, she pushed him onto the ground because she didn't want to be touched.) It's easy to assume a baby would be easy to control, but since she's no ordinary kid, one never knows. . . . |
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