Ivy

[swankivy]

The thread for all your conversations about telekinetic babies.

[SHO!]

Who?!

[customdesigned]

I would have expected Ivy's strength to grow gradually, peaking at 20 something - just like muscular strength. While it seems reasonable that she can fly at the toddler stage, it doesn't seem reasonable that she can pick up adults at her tender age. This changes the dynamics from telekinesis to super strength. I always wanted to see a movie about superman growing up, and how his adoptive parents disciplined a little tyke who could lift a tractor.

[swankivy]

Mm, interesting (about the idea of strength growing gradually). Yeah, definitely in her case it isn't something that grew with age. She was born with all the power she'll ever have--she's no stronger when she's older. Though of course as she ages she becomes more skillful in using it.

In her case, her ability is similar to her other senses--when she gets older she won't be able to see, hear, smell, taste, or feel any "better" than she does now, but she will definitely be able to interpret what those senses can do with more skill as she ages, and act differently based on her interpretations.

[SHO!]

Hm, how do you know smell and taste do not increase with age? It would explain why things we thought were "yucky" when we were younger now taste good and vice versa.

[stab]

Jan 18, 2010 18:26:47 GMT -5 SHO! said:

Hm, how do you know smell and taste do not increase with age? It would explain why things we thought were "yucky" when we were younger now taste good and vice versa.

I would guess that it is more the case that smell and taste do not change, but as the brain evolves with growth, we gain a more sophisticated understanding of the sensory data we are receiving. Thus the barrage of sensations we perceive as "yucky" as children can be sorted out into distinct flavors that work together in interesting ways as an adult. There is also the fact that we desensitize our taste buds to certain inputs as we age, thus we gain a greater capacity to accept spice because we have a reduced capacity to sense it.

[SHO!]

Jan 18, 2010 21:35:49 GMT -5 stab said:

Jan 18, 2010 18:26:47 GMT -5 SHO! said:

Hm, how do you know smell and taste do not increase with age? It would explain why things we thought were "yucky" when we were younger now taste good and vice versa.

I would guess that it is more the case that smell and taste do not change, but as the brain evolves with growth, we gain a more sophisticated understanding of the sensory data we are receiving. Thus the barrage of sensations we perceive as "yucky" as children can be sorted out into distinct flavors that work together in interesting ways as an adult. There is also the fact that we desensitize our taste buds to certain inputs as we age, thus we gain a greater capacity to accept spice because we have a reduced capacity to sense it.

Saying we gain a more sophisticated understanding is indicative of a conscious choice. That really doesn't explain why someone who perhaps hated bananas as a child now likes them. Why so many candies were so acceptable and delicious but now are just too sweet. Or why the aroma of coffee can disgust you as a child but for some (not me) it becomes tantalizing in a very basic way. Without devising the how or why it is just good or bad at a sensory level. Further, you even mention desensitizing taste buds as we age. That would indicate the change through aging that I originally mentioned.

On a side note, I didn't originally mention hearing, but the phenomenon of the "mosquito tone" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito#Teen_Buzz_ringtone) also shows a sensory change correlated with age.

[swankivy]

Well sure, there are things that change in our abilities as WE change (of course, most notably that the MAJORITY of the population ends up needing reading glasses when they get older), but this is a direct result of living experience and natural aging.

With regards to Ivy, though, she's not really having any noticeable changes to her ability during her lifetime. Interestingly--though this hasn't manifested in the comic yet--if she got sick enough that she had to stay in bed, she'd still have no trouble rearranging the furniture. Long story short, it doesn't appear to depend on her body at all.

[stab]

Jan 19, 2010 13:30:33 GMT -5 SHO! said:

Saying we gain a more sophisticated understanding is indicative of a conscious choice. That really doesn't explain why someone who perhaps hated bananas as a child now likes them. Why so many candies were so acceptable and delicious but now are just too sweet. Or why the aroma of coffee can disgust you as a child but for some (not me) it becomes tantalizing in a very basic way. Without devising the how or why it is just good or bad at a sensory level. Further, you even mention desensitizing taste buds as we age. That would indicate the change through aging that I originally mentioned.

On a side note, I didn't originally mention hearing, but the phenomenon of the "mosquito tone" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito#Teen_Buzz_ringtone) also shows a sensory change correlated with age.

What I had intended to indicate was that it was not an increase in ability, but rather a degeneration. A desensitization of ones taste buds to a specific taste may allow for a perception of other flavors because one is not overwhelmed by that taste, but this does not imply an increase in the powers of those areas of taste not effected by this decrease. Change in ability does not imply increase in ability.

Again, in the case of the mosquito sound, the gradual reduction in ones ability to perceive it indicates a degeneration of ability.

This is not to say that there does not exist a precedence for an increase of some native ability with age, but rather that the majority seem not to act that way, which does lend precedence to little Ivy having the same level of power at all stages of life. In fact, as it does not, as Ivy has stated, have any physical reliance, it does seem to follow that it ought not change, either to increase or degenerate.

[SHO!]

Jan 19, 2010 17:14:28 GMT -5 stab said:

This is not to say that there does not exist a precedence for an increase of some native ability with age, but rather that the majority seem not to act that way, which does lend precedence to little Ivy having the same level of power at all stages of life. In fact, as it does not, as Ivy has stated, have any physical reliance, it does seem to follow that it ought not change, either to increase or degenerate.

I do not doubt this comic's creator when she informs me about the abilities of one of her characters. That wouldn't make any sense. In fact, I didn't mention Amanda's power at all. My question was about the five senses we use in this world.

I find it odd that in one thread, stab, you seem to want to argue with me about not being able to prove the falsity of invisible beings that sit on clouds, play harps, and move us around like chess pieces but here you seem to be stating that you know the intensity to which babies can see, hear, taste, smell, and feel though, to my knowledge (which I must admit is full of holes), there aren't an test to prove that those sense aren't duller in them and no baby has gone on historical record to tell us otherwise in a language that is clearly understandable by all.

[stab]

I am sorry if that last paragraph sounded in some way aggressive or something, I was just playing around with an idea and trying to see how it fit with what Ivy had stated. It was not even necessarily in response, or at least not exclusively, to something you had said.

This is not an area I can claim any expertise in, but it does seem to me that the five senses tend to degenerate with time. It is the case that taste buds become less sensitive with time, and the article you cited seemed to imply the same for hearing, but perhaps I was mistaken to attempt to generalize from limited data.

It may be the case that strength of senses might act as a parabolic function with time, first growing stronger and only weakening after a certain point.

[swankivy]

Yeah, I'd say there are some aspects of physical bodies that deteriorate gradually over time because of prolonged use, etc., while there are other aspects that increase and peak at a certain time (like, as mentioned above, physical strength) before they decline. Then there are things like wisdom, which people generally accept increases with age (usually) until or unless a person starts to suffer from a degenerative disease that affects the brain.

For baby Ivy, though, I've not noticed any changes over time for her abilities, for better OR for worse, with respect to either strength or sensitivity, at all--except that when she is older she does learn to take full advantage of its usefulness. Of course, there is the fact that within the story there's been no opportunity to really measure anything about it. All she knows is that she's never failed to be strong enough to do something she wants to do.

[SHO!]

Obviously Amanda needs her might tested by an evil telekinetic baby... with a pencil thin pervy moustache and a disturbing love for hand-mashed nanners.

[swankivy]

She may not have a pencil-thin mustache, but how do you know SHE'S not the evil one? Heh. (We at least know she has a bratty side. . . . )

[SHO!]

Jan 23, 2010 1:09:32 GMT -5 swankivy said:

She may not have a pencil-thin mustache, but how do you know SHE'S not the evil one? Heh. (We at least know she has a bratty side. . . . )

Because the separation surgery scar is on her left side!