Post by customdesigned on Jan 23, 2010 10:55:35 GMT -5
stab said "Clearly, it is mistake to read such texts literally".
It is a mistake to read *all* such texts literally. There are many different types of literature in general, and many types of religious literature. The Book of Mormon (not counting "Doctrine and Covenants") is intended to be historical (although some critics contend that the original author intended it as historical fiction). The Bible is a collection of works of vastly differing types, from the clearly historical such as Joshua, Kings, Chronicles, to proverbs. There are ambiguous books - for instance Jonah is written in the literary style of a tall tale, but there are other reason to think it might be intended to be historical as well. Job is written as a stage drama - and the "conversations" are no more intended to be literal transcriptions than Shakespeare. But Shakespeare had historical (or historically inspired) dramas as well as fantasy - Job is a historical drama.
@sho! said "Alchemy is/was a vocation wrought in secrecy....Contrariwise, religion (for the most part), is all about indoctrinating as many new people as possible."
We are still unclear on what you mean by "religion", but we'll go with the ambiguity and use examples. There are many "gnostic" forms of religion, where the prize is secret knowledge made available only to the privileged few. Free Masonry, some parts of Mormonism, Scientology and Heaven's Gate are modern examples. Most of the letters in the Christian New Testament are addressing the growing problem of gnostic sects - and the Apostles stress that everything they teach is public and available to all. There are dozens of gnostic gospels that purport to reveal the "real scoop" on the life of Jesus. Whereas the canonical gospels were widely copied and distributed, the gnostic gospels were hidden and passed on to the initiated.
You are correct in that the kinds of "religion" I am interested in are the "open source" varieties. The gnostic groups lure you in with tantalizing tidbits, and require more and more commitment and rites of passage as you progress, until by the time you reach the inner circle, you are thoroughly conditioned and controlled by the gnostic religion. Because of this, most gnostic groups are labelled "cults" because of their oppressive sociology.
So I disagree with your assessment - it is the gnostic religions that are to be avoided. Their claims are not fully known until you reach the inner circle - and then you are no longer rational. The open religions have public claims that can be investigated and debunked or accepted. (And every religion has at least some claims that are true - if it doesn't, just add a "not" in front of every claim for an infallible source of truth.)
It is a mistake to read *all* such texts literally. There are many different types of literature in general, and many types of religious literature. The Book of Mormon (not counting "Doctrine and Covenants") is intended to be historical (although some critics contend that the original author intended it as historical fiction). The Bible is a collection of works of vastly differing types, from the clearly historical such as Joshua, Kings, Chronicles, to proverbs. There are ambiguous books - for instance Jonah is written in the literary style of a tall tale, but there are other reason to think it might be intended to be historical as well. Job is written as a stage drama - and the "conversations" are no more intended to be literal transcriptions than Shakespeare. But Shakespeare had historical (or historically inspired) dramas as well as fantasy - Job is a historical drama.
@sho! said "Alchemy is/was a vocation wrought in secrecy....Contrariwise, religion (for the most part), is all about indoctrinating as many new people as possible."
We are still unclear on what you mean by "religion", but we'll go with the ambiguity and use examples. There are many "gnostic" forms of religion, where the prize is secret knowledge made available only to the privileged few. Free Masonry, some parts of Mormonism, Scientology and Heaven's Gate are modern examples. Most of the letters in the Christian New Testament are addressing the growing problem of gnostic sects - and the Apostles stress that everything they teach is public and available to all. There are dozens of gnostic gospels that purport to reveal the "real scoop" on the life of Jesus. Whereas the canonical gospels were widely copied and distributed, the gnostic gospels were hidden and passed on to the initiated.
You are correct in that the kinds of "religion" I am interested in are the "open source" varieties. The gnostic groups lure you in with tantalizing tidbits, and require more and more commitment and rites of passage as you progress, until by the time you reach the inner circle, you are thoroughly conditioned and controlled by the gnostic religion. Because of this, most gnostic groups are labelled "cults" because of their oppressive sociology.
So I disagree with your assessment - it is the gnostic religions that are to be avoided. Their claims are not fully known until you reach the inner circle - and then you are no longer rational. The open religions have public claims that can be investigated and debunked or accepted. (And every religion has at least some claims that are true - if it doesn't, just add a "not" in front of every claim for an infallible source of truth.)
