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Post by swankivy on Jan 22, 2010 23:46:02 GMT -5
What do you think is the best way of dealing with the unwanted attention being different attracts?
Do you think Theresa's right for suggesting Ivy should just "get used to" people behaving inconsiderately in reaction to her unusual features?
If you were in her situation or a similar one, would you just kindly tolerate strangers' curiosity, or would you ignore it, or blow up about it?
If you've had experience getting unwanted attention for something unusual about you--anything from an odd physical feature to an uncommon name--discuss how you handle people's comments, questions, and reactions.
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Post by skygawker on Jan 23, 2010 0:24:02 GMT -5
The closest thing I've experienced was being in Japan. I know you know about this from multiple sources, but I'll throw it out for discussion.  It really WAS kind of like we had superpowers there, too! Being able to speak English, or alternately, being able to speak Japanese -- yep, our amazing abilities. Or (sadly) just being white. That, of course, was the most annoying thing to have people stare at, but in our case, we signed up for it. Still, it got old. My advice to Ivy and all her friends on this subject would be to pick your battles. People are entitled to be surprised when they see something new; if they also manage to keep in mind a bit that you are a person who deserves some respect, then give them some brownie points and save the anger for people who treat you like you're not a person at all. Somehow I imagine Ivy will have to face that even more! (Then again, don't underestimate the culturally sheltered nature of some Japanese people....) Also, when people run away from you in fear, it's frustrating, but sometimes it does simplify things. Heh. |
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Post by SHO! on Jan 23, 2010 0:44:36 GMT -5
The Resa's counsel to Amanda should be the right course. The problem though is in the practice. People that do not get that kind of perpetual, unwanted, venomous attention from strangers and minor acquaintances just don't understand the torture on the psyche that comes with it. People without the know are often prone to comments like, "Just get over it," or, "grow a thicker skin," or, "we all had to endure..." without really knowing the extent of how those wounds constantly being refreshed can affect (infect?) someone. And a lot of times they don't care to understand and dismiss it all as irrelevant.
Obviously I am speaking from experience here. Kindly tolerating and/or ignoring works for a while. It actually works very well... when you are not dealing with the truly dense. Of course, when talking about someone that would torture another just for being different, you're usually talking about the truly dense.
In the past I've always dealt with this kind of situation by trying to ignore it or avoid it all together by trying to be as inconspicuous as possible and just blend into the background, keep my head down, stay quiet. A lot of times that just made it worse because villains always think that silence and passivity is congruent with weakness. My problem always came with having absolutely no support system, no where to turn to reclaim some peace of mind in the milder times. So eventually I'd fall into the same pattern of choking o the pain all alone until I couldn't anymore and then exploding on the current tormentor with the retribution for all of the past pains (including the ones they hadn't been responsible for) and hurting someone tragically.
My question is: why do people like that always tickle the beast? "This guy's twice your size, twice your weight, and remember last year when he threw that guy into a pole and broke his collar bone? You got your jokes in, everyone laughed, he still hasn't hit you, move on." I've never understood going against that reasoning.
Anyway, all of that got me to where I am now. I spend most of my time in my cave. I don't go out much and I try to avoid human contact as much as possible. I'm still usually the biggest and the strongest and, more often than not, at least amongst the brightest, but now I am at an age that if I let my temper fly at undeserved treatment I won't just get sent home for a while, I'll probably go to prison. Rather than risk that and risk really hurting people again I choose isolation.
If Amanda ever realizes she has a temper than she might want to think about doing the same and living somewhat apart from "normal" people. She has the prospects of much greater destruction than of anything I've ever been capable.
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Post by blondiviolette on Jan 23, 2010 3:03:21 GMT -5
I think Theresa is right in the fact that no matter what, at some point Ivy is going to have to deal with people saying things about her she'd rather not hear, and that it is something she should be aware will happen, now whether she should 'just get used to' it in a sort of way of saying 'get over it and deal with it' well that's another thing.
Having to put up with strangers and especially well known people pointing out and questioning rudely something that is unique to anyone can really damage someone's self esteem, sometimes they remember the comments forever and scars them. The people in their life say "Oh don't worry about it" but they don't understand cause the words aren't being said to them; if they were, they'd have a problem with it too, most likely (people are not always as strong as the advice they give to others though they'd love to think so). Although Ivy seems to be a content girl, at times she probably really hurts inside when she thinks of what people say about her? If I were Ivy, if people were genuinely curious and being nice I'd answer their questions cause I guess that's what I've always done in my own situations when anyone's asked something personal. But it depends who it is, if it was some stranger or someone mean who doesn't deserve any answers, then obviously not. People can be so pessimistic and brutal and they don't seem to notice or care when it comes to someone being unusual, at times you have to put them in their place and other times you just have to let it go and it's not worth getting into a fight about, but not good to be a doormat either. A hard topic to really answer actually, very complicated. In one of my own experiences when someone was quite disrespectful and sarcastic about something personal, I was sarcastic back to them and they got a bit awkward, said they'd 'stop freaking me out' and walked away and I said "Okay" to that. Another time it was staring straight back at someone who was looking oddly at me and they got embarrassed, smiled a little as if they'd been caught out, and looked away. So a dose of their own medicine can be a good way to get rid of the spiteful beaks which peck at your individuality. Laughing and acting positive about the situation also works to lighten the brutality of their words to make them think they haven't hurt you, I know someone who does this, she has this person who used to attack her for things she wore, what she looked like, what she ordered at a restaurant, EVERYTHING! and she always just spoke positively about what made the other person think she was weird and laughed if there was an attack, the attacker sometimes began to laugh along too, though awkwardly. In the end Ivy has to remember that what makes her different makes her beautiful, to not give in to the bad thoughts others drill into her is what's going to keep her strongest. You can't control what people say, but you can always know that they are the awful ones for being so spiteful, and not blame yourself. The saying goes: "People will fear what they don't understand" and this is very true in the case of Ivy, but just cause they don't or won't understand doesn't mean she's an unsolved puzzle or a freak, she's complete as she is, and if people don't want to see the positive side to her, then it's their loss, they're just silly and ignorant.
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Post by Dez on Jan 23, 2010 16:14:29 GMT -5
People always found my constant reading weird. You learn to...I want to say hide it, but that's not quite it. It was almost like I felt as if I were throwing an invisibility cloak on. The perception that other people couldn't see me, so I could do as I pleased. But still meant that direct confrontation would surprise me. That was the downside.
In Ivy's case, she could prolly literally do that. Maybe learn to keep a "push" around her to prevent people from touching her?
[moved from incorrect thread by admin]
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Post by swankivy on Jan 23, 2010 16:25:43 GMT -5
skygawker: Yes, the "foreigner experience" in places like Japan isn't always positive. As you know, it's true that foreigners in Japan frequently experience staring, inappropriate comments, and prejudice. They'll talk right in front of you as if positive you don't have the ability to speak their language, and then become totally shocked if you have the amazing ability to understand and speak to them! Some will automatically move if a foreigner sits too close to them. Some think walking up and touching a foreigner as if they're on display is just fine. Some will deny you (or at least resist offering you) certain opportunities because you're a foreigner.
Even when you're very acclimated to the environment and speak the language well and know the culture (like my sister after living there as a foreigner for eight years), a foreigner exposes him/herself to these attitudes automatically just by leaving the house. And you're right; it all comes down to people not understanding/not processing the fact that the foreigner is a person. You probably do have a much better chance of teaching someone something in that situation if you start with an understanding of their misconceptions.
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Post by swankivy on Jan 23, 2010 17:06:18 GMT -5
SHO!: Fantastic post! You're right on! People that do not get that kind of perpetual, unwanted, venomous attention from strangers and minor acquaintances just don't understand the torture on the psyche that comes with it. WELL-said. It's very true that people underestimate the effect it can have when people who don't even know you (or know you well) say unkind or asinine things about you. You have a choice to react or not, but as soon as the oppressive person puts you in that position, you're on the defensive. Over and over again. That sort of experience happening regularly--more often than not for more than one personal quality--can have huge negative effects on the psyche. People without the know are often prone to comments like, "Just get over it," or, "grow a thicker skin," or, "we all had to endure..." without really knowing the extent of how those wounds constantly being refreshed can affect (infect?) someone. And a lot of times they don't care to understand and dismiss it all as irrelevant. Yup. It's easy to add insult to injury and suggest that the oppressed person is not HANDLING the feedback correctly. This process further blames the victim. Just being singled out is enough to make some people uncomfortable--just knowing you're "the smart one" or "the one who doesn't go to church" or (in Ivy's case) "the girl who has funny ears" would be tiring to deal with over and over, but you add mocking to that equation and it's hard to know the best way to deal with it. In one of my novels, I had a bit that said "rejection from others often causes rejection of the self," and another bit that said "Often, when a child is treated with disrespect or curiosity because of physical or mental discrepancies, that child directs the hate onto him or herself, hating the condition, the situation, et cetera. The child directs the hate at the self because that is the example everyone else has set." If Amanda ever realizes she has a temper than she might want to think about doing the same and living somewhat apart from "normal" people. She has the prospects of much greater destruction than of anything I've ever been capable. Yep. In Ivy's case, obviously she could beat the living crap out of someone if she perceived that that person was harassing her. But the effect of their words would still be there. Her making them sorry they said it wouldn't mean that their statements wouldn't find their mark. Most people who know Ivy in her later years know better than to tempt her, but since on the outside she doesn't look capable of delivering a beating, strangers tend to have no qualms. It's not difficult to imagine her making an insensitive commenter sorry, but it's also not difficult to imagine why she nevertheless becomes self-conscious about certain things once she's old enough to understand, judging her own reflection as "looking stupid" and quietly tucking her ears up under a hat before she goes out. I personally like turning the conversations around if possible--put the oppressive person on the defensive. Equating their ignorant comments with other people's boorish behavior sometimes works: "Oh gee, I've never heard THAT one before, you're so original." With the politer comments, I've had some success with answering what they ask and adding, "I'm used to answering questions, so you can ask, everybody does." Though one thing I'm still not sure how to handle are the running gags--the silly comments that get brought up and smacked around at parties or in public. People announcing, without my permission, "Oh she does THIS" or "Well of course YOU would say that because YOU blah blah blah" (followed by laughter or, sometimes, questions from the uninitiated). Differences make people curious, so I guess I try to find some balance between making them more comfortable with whatever they don't understand about me and asking them to be respectful about my boundaries.
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Post by swankivy on Jan 23, 2010 17:30:47 GMT -5
blondiviolette: You make some great points. You're right that she'll have to deal with crap from people, because that's just plain part of the experience of being different. (And even people who are different themselves aren't immune to insensitive behavior when reacting to someone who's different in another way.) Of course, because she's a little baby right now, people feel even more entitled to inflict their will upon her. Happily, in most situations strangers' inclination to feel justified in randomly touching someone they don't know decreases as a person ages. There are exceptions, of course, but I'm happy to say in Ivy's case most people are aware they should ask permission before touching her ears once she's older. (She does get that question sometimes.) ^__^ Having to put up with strangers and especially well known people pointing out and questioning rudely something that is unique to anyone can really damage someone's self esteem, sometimes they remember the comments forever and scars them. The people in their life say "Oh don't worry about it" but they don't understand cause the words aren't being said to them; if they were, they'd have a problem with it too, most likely (people are not always as strong as the advice they give to others though they'd love to think so). This is similar to what SHO! said, yeah. It's nice to be recognized for being special, but most of the time people become sensitive about what makes them different, especially if it's something they did not choose for themselves. And since those who make the comments don't know how it feels to be you, they think you're making too big a deal out of it if you react badly. They don't understand that their comment is probably last in a LONG line of hearing similar ones. Although Ivy seems to be a content girl, at times she probably really hurts inside when she thinks of what people say about her? If I were Ivy, if people were genuinely curious and being nice I'd answer their questions cause I guess that's what I've always done in my own situations when anyone's asked something personal. Exactly, though in the comic she's not gotten old enough yet to understand what people's comments mean. She doesn't like having to deal with horrified expressions or, you know, ear-tweaking, but she doesn't quite have an inkling yet what's causing people to act this way. She doesn't understand the alienation inherent in being as different as she is, not yet--she's too young to understand that other people actually think and whatnot, and can't anticipate their feelings. You're right that it's a tough issue to balance. I don't think there IS one right answer since it's so situationally dependent!
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Post by swankivy on Jan 23, 2010 17:38:39 GMT -5
People always found my constant reading weird. You learn to...I want to say hide it, but that's not quite it. It was almost like I felt as if I were throwing an invisibility cloak on. That's an interesting way to deal with it. The "don't bug me" aura. In Ivy's case, she could prolly literally do that. Maybe learn to keep a "push" around her to prevent people from touching her? Well, on this bit I can decidedly say she can't do that--she generally uses her ability to move solid objects, and this sounds more like a force field idea. She does have the ability to move air in a haphazard way--though she can't "hold" it or control it well--so the closest she could come to this would be practicing until she could push regular winds out from herself in all directions. And I can assure you she wouldn't be able to keep that up for long (not to mention it'd be very noticeable). |
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Post by SHO! on Jan 23, 2010 23:40:24 GMT -5
Although Ivy seems to be a content girl, at times she probably really hurts inside when she thinks of what people say about her? If I were Ivy, if people were genuinely curious and being nice I'd answer their questions cause I guess that's what I've always done in my own situations when anyone's asked something personal. Exactly, though in the comic she's not gotten old enough yet to understand what people's comments mean. She doesn't like having to deal with horrified expressions or, you know, ear-tweaking, but she doesn't quite have an inkling yet what's causing people to act this way. She doesn't understand the alienation inherent in being as different as she is, not yet--she's too young to understand that other people actually think and whatnot, and can't anticipate their feelings. You're right that it's a tough issue to balance. I don't think there IS one right answer since it's so situationally dependent!
It's a pity though. This is exactly where a loving parent's intervention would come in handy. By now I'd guess Meri Lin would be instinctively sensing when she would need to prepare to slap away a rude person's hand before they tugged on her daughter. Especially after Amanda was able to tell her that when people did that it hurt and upset her. Perhaps The Resa will take a bit of the slack of Meri Lin's absence and at least explain to Amanda, in a way she can comprehend and recall, why people do that to her. |
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Post by swankivy on Jan 24, 2010 1:41:17 GMT -5
It's a pity though. This is exactly where a loving parent's intervention would come in handy. By now I'd guess Meri Lin would be instinctively sensing when she would need to prepare to slap away a rude person's hand before they tugged on her daughter. Probably. Mothers know their children better than other people. However, it should be noted that there were several references to Meri Lin suggesting that it'd be nice if they could get corrective surgery for her ears before her daughter went to school. Meri Lin made some progress in accepting that her daughter was just going to be different no matter what, but I think there was a big part of her that wanted to dispose of the difference rather than deal with it. All in the interest of her kid having a happy life, of course. Especially after Amanda was able to tell her that when people did that it hurt and upset her. Perhaps The Resa will take a bit of the slack of Meri Lin's absence and at least explain to Amanda, in a way she can comprehend and recall, why people do that to her. I think that possibility's remote for now. She objects to the unusual attention mainly because she doesn't feel great about being touched by strangers, but hasn't got a clue why people keep paying special attention to her ears. I think she's probably still too young for the self-awareness that that realization would require. Same as she hasn't figured out any significance to her skin tone or hair color being different from someone else's, it hasn't occurred to her that the shape of her ears (not to mention her missing pinkies and everything else) might be non-standard. |
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Post by SHO! on Jan 24, 2010 20:22:11 GMT -5
It's a pity though. This is exactly where a loving parent's intervention would come in handy. By now I'd guess Meri Lin would be instinctively sensing when she would need to prepare to slap away a rude person's hand before they tugged on her daughter. Probably. Mothers know their children better than other people. However, it should be noted that there were several references to Meri Lin suggesting that it'd be nice if they could get corrective surgery for her ears before her daughter went to school. Meri Lin made some progress in accepting that her daughter was just going to be different no matter what, but I think there was a big part of her that wanted to dispose of the difference rather than deal with it. All in the interest of her kid having a happy life, of course
But wasn't that before she learned of Amanda's ability (or at least the strength of that ability)? I think after being pinned against a wall, with your significant other, until you fainted [again] would be enough to make cosmetic differences seem superficial. Of course that's just my opinion. |
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Post by swankivy on Jan 25, 2010 2:03:12 GMT -5
Eh, actually, no--I remember her still talking about not being able to afford cosmetic surgery for the baby during the Christmas Pictures issue (#0135), and the tone of that made it seem like she'd still want to get it. She learned to fly in #0103. Even as far as the part where she went to the doctor in #0153, the doc asked if they were looking into anything to "correct" her ears and Meri Lin said that maybe the money would be there before she entered school.
To tell you the truth, though, I'm not 100% sure Meri Lin would go through with something like that with her kid. Especially considering she'd still have missing pinkies which would also attract attention. And that sort of surgery would be an awful lot of money to dump on a cosmetic issue. Meri Lin was ultimately hoping her daughter would learn to blend in, and it's possible having normal ears would have made it just a little easier.
Hmm. She'd look weird with round ears.
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Post by SHO! on Jan 25, 2010 15:17:22 GMT -5
Especially considering she'd still have missing pinkies which would also attract attention. And that sort of surgery would be an awful lot of money to dump on a cosmetic issue.  |
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Post by swankivy on Jan 26, 2010 3:10:01 GMT -5
Oof, have you heard of a replacement surgery that involves swapping toes for missing fingers? I hadn't heard of something like that. In any case, I don't think any surgery for her hands was suggested (by her parents OR the doctors). I don't know that it would be possible. (And if it was I can't say I'd imagine they'd take a toe--having a toe for a finger would be just as weird-looking as being born without a fifth finger.) WHEEEEEEE!  |
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It really WAS kind of like we had superpowers there, too! Being able to speak English, or alternately, being able to speak Japanese -- yep, our amazing abilities. Or (sadly) just being white. That, of course, was the most annoying thing to have people stare at, but in our case, we signed up for it. Still, it got old. My advice to Ivy and all her friends on this subject would be to pick your battles. People are entitled to be surprised when they see something new; if they also manage to keep in mind a bit that you are a person who deserves some respect, then give them some brownie points and save the anger for people who treat you like you're not a person at all. Somehow I imagine Ivy will have to face that even more! (Then again, don't underestimate the culturally sheltered nature of some Japanese people....)
