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Post by swankivy on Feb 19, 2010 23:45:31 GMT -5
What's human?
Ivy was born from human parents, but there are some obvious fundamental differences between her and them. How much different do you suppose a creature can be from its parents before it might be considered a different creature from those that gave birth to it? Do you think Ivy counts as human, or is she something else?
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Post by meggie on Feb 20, 2010 0:09:59 GMT -5
I think that Ivy is definitely human. My understanding of evolution is that it takes many many tiny mutations before you get a completely different creature. I don't think there really has been a case where two parents of the same species gave birth to something entirely new. I think you'd have to look over thousands of generations before you could see the complete change.
When it comes to Ivy, even though she has powers and looks different, she's still genetically human. Whatever chunk of her DNA was activated to make her the way she is, it's still human DNA. I also think you have to have more than one to consider it a new species, rather than just a sport or a mutation.
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Post by SHO! on Feb 20, 2010 1:05:43 GMT -5
I don't think I could've said it better than Meggie. Though to play devil's advocate here, a horse and a donkey can mate and create a sterile animal called a mule. Similar to either, but different than both. So Meggie has a point when it comes to two animals of the same species, but when you cross species you can get something new and unique.
That being said though, Ivy's parents were both human, she is human.
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Post by skygawker on Feb 20, 2010 18:21:09 GMT -5
Sho's note about donkeys and horses producing mules popped into my head when I first read your question, too, as did Meggie's comment that since both parents are human, Ivy's a human too. I see Ivy more as evolution of what it means to be human. Evolution into a totally new species takes a really long time and we can't really recognize it happening within the scale of our individual lives, though we can point to examples like, say, lack of wisdom teeth to show the way our species could be evolving. (Though how wisdom teeth would really get evolved out of us when people don't select mates for lack of excess teeth isn't clear to me. Or rather, we all get the excess teeth removed and get braces if we have to. I guess if wisdom teeth messed someone's face up totally, that could push someone out of the gene pool. Hah. I'm overanalyzing this, aren't I? And showing how amateur my understanding of the subject is, I'm sure!)
Do you recall a show called the Tomorrow People? It was about kids who had various superpowers that were supposed to mean they were the next level of human evolution. Homo superior rather than homo sapiens. I actually never really saw much of the show but for some reason I remember that much of the premise. I guess Ivy is a tomorrow person.
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Post by blondiviolette on Feb 22, 2010 2:31:17 GMT -5
I see Ivy as a human with a little extra to make her unique from other humans, therefore being part of the SUPERHUMAN category!
A person can be born completely the opposite of their parents in lots of ways anyhow physically/mentally/otherwise in this world so it is very possible that whatever happened to make Ivy the way she is could categorize her in a different description than her parents, since no-one has any control over what a baby is born with or isn't born with and there can be good things happening in the growing process or bad, so it's up to the molecules and effects of what certain diets, exposure, or whatnot do to the fetus. I think just because her parents are human doesn't mean she necessarily has to be human, whereas she likely is but just with extra special stuff like I said before, it's probably much to do with the growing process inside the womb and one little tremor could change the dna structure entirely creating a whole new reality regardless of what is inside of the parents.
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Post by swankivy on Feb 22, 2010 2:46:42 GMT -5
Very interesting thoughts, you guys. . . .
I would say that, as a scientific classification based on "species," Ivy would obviously be a human, no question about it. What's interesting, though, is thinking about how that will affect how she thinks of herself.
It's interesting that pretty much everyone except for this new guy has dubbed Ivy a magical creature upon finding out what she can do. It's that separate from "within the realm of humanity's abilities" that they immediately want to consider her something else--even to the point that they're conceding there might be others like her in some other universe, creating "a bigger mystery" as the comic dialogue said. If Ivy is a human but she has all these things that are different about her, it's tempting for her to see herself as a mistake or a result of something going WRONG . . . and while she's not old enough to understand such self-concepts yet, I think looking at herself in such a way in the future is a distinct possibility. . . .
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