|
|
Post by swankivy on Feb 12, 2010 23:20:03 GMT -5
How humans do it
In this issue, Weaver suggests his and Dax's species might be like most of the animals in our world in that they have a naturally mandated mating season. Do you think humans are lucky being one of the only species that can mate year-round? Or do you think we'd be better off if we only focused our attention on mating at specified times? How do you think this would change our culture if that detail was different?
|
|
|
|
Post by Austin on Feb 13, 2010 0:00:03 GMT -5
I'm sure that there are plenty of people who are thankful that our species can mate at any time, but, from a certain viewpoint, it's sort of a drawback for humans, as we're already a group that lacks any particular threat capable of wiping us out (besides ourselves, of course). Perhaps one day nature will see that we're bound to overpopulate the earth this way and our reproductive systems will change, so that we'll have mating seasons.
If society was like this, humanity's culture would be missing a lot of the more sexual elements. Of course, things like dirty magazines and prostitutes would still be around, but would only be offered seasonally, so to speak. And then one thing would be bound to lead to another until we'd have peculiar theologies arising with plenty of fertility gods, and national holidays set aside just for sex.
A weird thought, when you look into it, but also a very thought provoking element for discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by SHO! on Feb 13, 2010 0:26:54 GMT -5
I think it's almost obvious that it's better the way we have it. Animals with mating seasons seem to almost go insane during that time. They do very irrational things like coming much closer (or even crossing) human settlements that they'd normally out of a compulsion for promiscuity that seems to overpower all sensibility. Which makes sense seeing how procreating is such a biological imperative to most species and a mating seasons narrows the window of chance. Instinctual realizations like that cause prudent judgment to go flying out the window.
I don't think culture and society as we know it could exist if humans were like that. "Going into heat" seems to cause female animals to lose all inhibitions and walk around with "their tails in the air" so as to send more male animals into a craze of lusts that controls them to do anything to mate with the source. Including fight and/or kill rivals that might block entry.
Women in heat would turn public areas into chaos. Birthing age females would have to be sequestered away during that time of the year by their families or the government (and how does homosexuality factor in here?). Either that or forced to wear under garments that prevented the scent from wafting, but if in heat then irrationality might make them want to take them off so they'd have to be locked on in a way they couldn't get them off.
Co-ed high school and middle school would be impossible. Not knowing exactly when each female reaches her own sexual maturity would throw chance into the game. Imagine in class that two or three females suddenly go into heat for the first time, scared, losing their mind to lust, all the while the male teachers and students that have also reached sexual maturity begin bashing each other's brains in to get to be the one to mount these first-timers.
Humans already seem to have enough problems with "morning after" guilt. Let's now add that any closed situation with males and females (i.e. the military, research scientists, astronauts, disaster shelters, live theater, PTA meetings, etc.) could erupt into an orgy at a moment's notice. How do you look someone in the eye when you realize you've killed her boyfriend by toppling an electron microscope onto the guy then impregnated her! Hallmark stores would have to be SO much bigger to encompass all the cards and balloons for those situations!
I guess one could argue that humans, being creatures of rationale, could think their way around the insanity of biologically mandated mating seasons. However, on a whole, we don't seem to have been able to always think our way around other primal, ingrained imperatives. Every day thousands (millions?) of humans kill each other over territory, power (to be leader of the pack), protection of their young, jealousy (alpha envy), and desperation of survival. We fall prey to the compulsions of our animal instincts all the time and that's without the biological urgency of a mating season or the dominating effect of the pheromones that go with that. In my opinion those things cut away at choice and more choice is always better.
|
|
|
|
Post by swankivy on Feb 13, 2010 0:38:21 GMT -5
Aw, but SHO! It wouldn't AUTOMATICALLY have to be an "everyone becomes crazy and mindless" type of mating season, would it? If there was a very limited time during which the females could get pregnant--and, consequently, a very limited time during which anyone cared to--it doesn't automatically follow that it'd be a different level of attraction from the way it works now.
Of course, looking at the rest of the animal kingdom, the so-called "twitterpation" of the forest creatures does suggest that mating seasons cause a radical change of behavior by their very nature. If humans' evolutionary line had never departed from that way of life but had still managed to evolve similarly to how we are today, I think it's a given that our mating--whatever form it took--wouldn't be able to cause prolonged periods of insanity. ('Course, some people might say it already does, heh.)
|
|
|
|
Post by SHO! on Feb 13, 2010 2:07:10 GMT -5
Aw, but SHO! It wouldn't AUTOMATICALLY have to be an "everyone becomes crazy and mindless" type of mating season, would it? If there was a very limited time during which the females could get pregnant--and, consequently, a very limited time during which anyone cared to--it doesn't automatically follow that it'd be a different level of attraction from the way it works now.
All else being the same, I'd say that one aspect already changes everything on its own. However, if you want to follow a natural progression from the beginning, with humans always having had a mating seasons then I think there is even further argument for the devolution of society as it is today.
First, I believe we'd all be living in Africa. Having a set mating season and having to wait to procreate when a female goes into heat and a male notices would cut down on a lot of the freedom of baby-making. I seriously doubt the nomadic lifestyle early humans took on, breaking into smaller tribes and wandering away, could exist without the freedom of mating all year long. And I can't think of any other creature that moved around the seven continental Earth as much as humans did, let alone one restricted to a mating season.
Second, it seems like most animals that have mating seasons also need to have extreme multiple births, litters, to compensate. That would also cut down on the feasibility of women traveling much. I think it would also radically cement gender roles (Octomom definitely wasn't jogging for the last few months of her pregnancy).
Third, the crazy mindless part seems to germinate from the frantic dash to mate. Like another Austin pointed out, humans are prolific because we have had the freedom to mate whenever we wanted. Take that away from the very beginning of our evolution and you cut down our numbers and don't get to have the laid back attitudes towards procreation that we enjoy now. Even without mating seasons, in just about every post-apocalyptic story, once our numbers have drastically been reduced, one sex or the other seems to become property of the other as a procreative commodity. I know this is fiction, but it is speculative fiction based on the observed motivations of real life. When a species doesn't have the overwhelming numbers that we enjoy now then survival of the species comes into question and society begins to disallow luxuries like homosexuality, asexuality, nonsexual sexual adolescents (dogs don't wait until "18", and neither do mutants and survivals apparently), and female independence because in mating season species the larger gender doesn't usually allow much choice to the smaller one. What I'm saying is that so much rational behavior and laid back attitude seems to go out of the window when you limit the choices around procreation.
I think the power of sex and the biological drive to propagate (and flourish) are being greatly underestimated here. Look how many bad and irrational decisions and acts are committed by humans around those subjects now, then add in the desperation that every animal that seems to suffer from a mating season goes through. I believe things would get a little crazy.
This whole discussion makes me think of those two dogs locked together in the middle of the street that get hit by a truck because they irrationally tried to "hook up" in a place they are normally conditioned to be cautious around. Or pets that bite and scratch people and lose their homes in a desperate attempt to get out and get to others of their species during mating season.Of course, looking at the rest of the animal kingdom, the so-called "twitterpation" of the forest creatures does suggest that mating seasons cause a radical change of behavior by their very nature. If humans' evolutionary line had never departed from that way of life but had still managed to evolve similarly to how we are today, I think it's a given that our mating--whatever form it took--wouldn't be able to cause prolonged periods of insanity. ('Course, some people might say it already does, heh.) |
|
|
|
Post by customdesigned on Feb 13, 2010 10:17:10 GMT -5
On Star Trek, the Vulcans have a mating season every 7 years. During it, their legendary rationality goes to the other extreme, and when it is over, they don't want anyone to talk about it.
Now strict materialists don't believe in this, but common sense tells us that people make choices. There are many kinds and aspects of "love", but among humans, most of us see "love" as having an element of free choosing. If someone's love for you is purely hormonal (whether sex, mother instinct, mammalian bonding), or programmed, most people would not find that as meaningful or fulfilling. Social instinct and hormones are an important part of love, but we expect deeper love of all kinds to be "free".
|
|
|
|
Post by swankivy on Feb 13, 2010 11:22:56 GMT -5
Why wouldn't it? If there was a very limited time during which the females could get pregnant--and, a very limited time during which anyone cared to--then how could the level of attraction possibly work being as laid back as it is now? We're complacent because we have choice. Well, there're lots of ways we could imagine it changing our culture, and the question is "how much," so I just didn't want this question to seem like the only way to think about it was imagining that humans lose their rationality completely during hypothetical mating seasons. All else being the same, I'd say that one aspect already changes everything on its own. However, if you want to follow a natural progression from the beginning, with humans always having had a mating seasons then I think there is even further argument for the devolution of society as it is today. Yeah, I think that's true . . . and if humans had the same level of rationality that they do today, they'd KNOW what the mating season was for and KNOW approximately when this was coming and all kinds of societal structures would be built around it. If the mating seasons had been part of humanity since the beginning, yes, it definitely would have made the species very different creatures, I think. That's like saying if we never stopped breathing underwater but still managed to evolve similarly to how we are today then cold McDonald's french fries wouldn't be so horrible and dry. That one thing is so basic that it would radically change everything. Society couldn't evolve similarly to how it is today. LOL! True . . . but considering how we've evolved because of how our mating works, we wouldn't even be biologically built the same. I learned in an anthropology class that females of most sexual species go through changes during the mating season that makes their secondary sex characteristics more obvious and attractive to the males, while human women always have their bodies primed to be attractive (even if they aren't fertile). Yep, it's possible we might still have been able to evolve to have some sort of society and still have inventive, intellectual minds, but changing this detail about humans would make us fundamentally different creatures! |
|
|
|
Post by blondiviolette on Feb 13, 2010 19:56:26 GMT -5
Maybe humans who are very interested in mating and sexual stuff would have more positive feedback for being able to mate year round, but I think there is so much sex in the world everywhere you go, on billboards, on tv, on radio etc that it would be nice to think the world could turn down the obsession with the subject, and if there were only certain mating seasons then people wouldn't be so ravenous to have to have it all the time perhaps, they'd focus their attentions on other avenues. Perhaps relationships with their partners could be a lot about the love and friendship than the physical part, I'm not saying ALL couples are obsessed, but sex seems to be a very important aspect of a relationship and SOMETIMES it gets TOO much, hence why people cheat, get addicted to porn and the like. If there were only certain times to mate there probably wouldn't be all the sleaze in magazines/internet. The sad thing about mating and sex is that it's become just so disgusting over the years with what people do and put out there to the world; the world could have always been like this with people loving to do certain things, but you didn't get to hear about it constantly. I'm sad to know what that two girls and a cup thing is without even looking up the damn website. Am not sure how that was found out about; being someone who doesn't watch porn it must have come from a seemingly clean source which threw it in your face somewhere in the content. It makes me sick.
Sex can be a romantic and special thing for sure, but it has been overpowered too much by animal lust which has ruined it a lot. I guess I'm old-fashioned or a 'prude' or not-open minded some would say, but I think it's just disappointing how much sex is made King and shoved in our faces all the time whether we want to see it or not doesn't seem to come into the picture, like those damn ads with the butt naked girls soaping each other etc for some sex chat line thing that comes on in the middle of an ad break nothing to do with porno stuff. Well, nothing much will change, in fact as years go on it will get more in your face and worse, but hey. Our government is trying to block some of the nasty sites from the internet but millions upon millions of online users are protesting the changes, many of them would be those who watch porn, there is such thing as freedom of choice, although sometimes it might be good to draw the line. I'm with the government on this matter; it isn't a popular opinion.
Also, if mating seasons were limited, more babies would be created out of love, less STDs too. Animals mate, give birth and that's it. Humans have the option for abortions and if not by medical reason, the baby aborted cause the parents don't want it; whereas animals deal with the consequences of their actions rather than resorting to drastic measures. So that would be a good thing. And specific mating seasons could help with overpopulation troubles, too.
|
|
|
|
Post by meggie on Feb 20, 2010 0:01:43 GMT -5
Bren immediately went to the Vulcan thing, too. XD I'm very glad we don't go in season like most of the animal kingdom. Although we are thinking creatures, the desire to mate would override everything. And if we follow the rest of the animal kingdom, we'd all go into season at the same time, so it would be impossible to control unless we really had an elaborate setup to keep us in check. I don't know how it would have affected our evolutionary process, either, but I can't imagine it would be a positive effect.
|
|
|
|
Post by Thomas on Nov 18, 2011 13:48:09 GMT -5
it would be nice to think the world could turn down the obsession with the subject ... I think it's just disappointing how much sex is made King and shoved in our faces all the time whether we want to see it or not ... specific mating seasons could help with overpopulation troubles, too. Part of the sexual obsession includes teaching girls to be grossed out by it, so they have some inhibitions and not go crazy with sex when they reach puberty. And to teach boys that being gay is gross, so they wait for girls to have sex with. I don't think I could predict how we'd behave if a mating season affected both men and women equally. What I've seen of dogs is that whenever a female dog is in heat, all the males around are ready to mate with her. If men had the same drives while women mated five days a year, my first guess is that there would be death and destruction on a level about that of world wars, in most neighborhoods most of the time. I believe that we evolved from dolphin-like creatures (hence no hair and fat just under the skin). A small group of male dolphins will team up to isolate a fertile female, and often will have to battle other gangs of male dolphins to keep the female. Also, dolphins have sex belly to belly. Would dolphins kill each other if they had hands and handguns? They'd probably hunt the sharks first, and once they had no significant natural predators, they might go human and kill each other. But their behavior, as ours, adapted to fit their environment. If we didn't have horny men, occasionally reluctant women, and a percentage of gays and lesbians, our society would have evolved far differently. It's fun to speculate, but the intermediate question to answer first is: Given a mating season, how else would we be different? Perhaps our SwankIvy has a bit more insight into this than I do, but lack of sex drive, versus seasonal sex drive, versus always on sex drive, give three substantially different worldviews. Isaac Asimov gave a society three sexes in The Gods Themselves, and these aliens were his best characters, because he couldn't write a convincing woman or romance. So we all would have blind spots trying to imagine the reality that would ensue. |
|
